tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-577874899733707685.post7961710740855900984..comments2023-10-29T10:23:49.164-04:00Comments on Post-Industrial Parenthood: Training DayJeffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13911644689635534904noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-577874899733707685.post-81592324919822946192011-06-24T17:29:51.258-04:002011-06-24T17:29:51.258-04:00I think the big distinction here, Jeff, is what yo...I think the big distinction here, Jeff, is what you just said about "regular gig." Anyone would be overwhelmed caring for children full time if they aren't used to it. When my niece and nephew stayed with me during the summer when they were younger, I would be exhausted at the end of the week, even though I loved spending time with them. I wasn't used to the early mornings and the constant need for activities. If I did it every day, every week, I'd develop a rhythm, a pace that was manageable. Like everything, it just takes practice to hone your skills. <br /><br />I also agree with Tara that sometimes women begrudge that good fathers get more credit than good mothers do, but that's just because equal-partner parenting hasn't always been the norm. Every time I watch Mad Men, I am reminded of how not responsible fathers felt for the dirty work of raising children in the 60's (on the whole, always exceptions of course). <br /><br />I used to deny gender differences when I was younger: "equal means same" mentality. I'm more comfortable with our gender differences now. Men and women have equal, but sometimes different gifts. I see this all the time in my marriage, and my husband and I are definitely equals. Your children will have the best of both worlds with you and Ava.Karahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512364716096701629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-577874899733707685.post-39539570019558370632011-06-17T23:16:26.521-04:002011-06-17T23:16:26.521-04:00Tara - I appreciate your thoughts on the tone of t...Tara - I appreciate your thoughts on the tone of the "you've got your hands full" comment. The one thing I would point out in reply is that regardless of tone or intent the fact that this comment is considered a friendly, throw away line does communicate something about the embedded cultural expectations of fathers. Much like with the father you described who is praised for successfully entering the grocery store with his kids, it seems that the bar for fathers often remains set pretty low.<br /><br />The question I have'nt quite answered for myself yet is: why do I care about where the bar is set? I feel offended by this low bar in some way but I'm not sure why it matters.<br /><br />Anonymous - You are right to point out that the current generation of men is on the whole a very active and involved group when it comes to their children. That said, I don't feel as if the thoughts contained in the lines you quoted are completely off-base. They were born out of a specific set of impressions that remain strong in my memory.<br /><br />Before Polly was born, we used to take Pip on regular Saturday morning trips to the zoo. One of the constant, almost archetypal, figures present at the zoo during these trips was the father who obviously had the kids for the morning while his wife was off doing something else. While these fathers were not necessarily clumsy or overwhelmed, they did conduct themselves in such a way to show that this was not their regular gig. There was a certain absence of parental restraint in their actions - they put cotton-candy in the kids hands at 10 AM; they conversed loudly on their cellphones while their kids ran around; one or two even stopped to get a beer from the zoo's beer vendor. These obviously were not all the men nor were they the majority of them. But there were enough that I felt comfortable using the word "many" in the lines you quoted.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13911644689635534904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-577874899733707685.post-83092127567595452652011-06-09T13:13:53.856-04:002011-06-09T13:13:53.856-04:00"For many men, this implication is fine. It a..."For many men, this implication is fine. It allows them to be distanced and distracted when watching their kids. It gives them some leeway to screw up without incurring any real social penalty. It enables them to be little better than a third-rate nanny and still be praised for their efforts." <br /><br />I think that's a pretty bold statement when you think about the amount of fathers in the current generation of parents that are actively involved on a daily basis. I don't know if this isn't the case with your peer group, but in my current circle of friends (and even acquaintances), I'd be hard-pressed to find a dad who feels overwhelmed by the idea of taking the kids to do something fun or even "being in charge" while mom's otherwise engaged. <br /><br />Did you ever consider that maybe you're overestimating exactly *HOW* counter to the social norm you think you are? I mean, yes, you are a bit of an anomaly in that you provide care for the children all day, every day. However, I would argue that's more because you're a parent who can afford (in all senses of the word) to stay at home with your children rather than the fact that you're a man. <br /><br />Someone gave me some advice once, and it's not as easy to remember as one might think. However, I believe it might be beneficial to you to consider at times when you feel as though people are underestimating your ability. (This is greatly paraphrased, by the way) - in all of your encounters with other people, assume that they are working and speaking under the best of intentions. While this may not *always* be the case, I do believe it is the case the majority of the time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-577874899733707685.post-67687177405503366912011-06-09T09:18:33.441-04:002011-06-09T09:18:33.441-04:00Thanks for another insightful post. I was struck ...Thanks for another insightful post. I was struck particularly by your take on the dreaded "you've got your hands full" comment. This is my number one comment in public and I have my own sensitivity to it - having five children, more than the socially accepted number! I am able now to look at it a bit more objectively and can tell that people don't really intend to be insulting when they say it. Also, there is wide variation in the *tone* of the comment and some say it in a genuinely sympathetic "I've been there" way, usually followed by "I had seven but it was wonderful". Those help make the bad ones more bearable. The other day I was buying milk and eggs at a farmer's market when the cashier asked if I needed a bag. When I declined, she said cheerfully: You have a lot of hands to help carry! This was a whole new way of looking at the situation and I appreciated it. Nevertheless, I am always monitoring my children's behavior and my parenting with the possibility of The Comment in view. :)<br /><br />Another comment (regarding full time dads):<br />I have a friend who tells me that when her husband takes their four daughters to the grocery store, people (especially women) fall all over themselves telling him what a great dad he is and what a fabulous job he is doing. She is somewhat affronted by this as she feels they simply expect that she, the mother, would do those tasks unrecognized when, in fact, the two share parenting and work responsibilities. It probably doesn't help their case that the family is black - and others don't know that he is an engineer and she an OB-GYN. She's supposed to be the mom and anything he does to help makes him a Great (black) Father.<br /><br />Lastly, I might add that, for myself, I think it's obvious who the "good dads" are and the "not involved ones". This goes for moms too. I don't assume gender has anything to do with good parenting. It's probably not the stuff you're thinking about that makes other people notice that you're doing a good job. Anyway, Kid Situations happen to everyone; the key is how they get handled. And, how the unseen ones get handled goes even deeper. Wish I had done better in some of those myself. <br /><br />Thanks for sharing!Taranoreply@blogger.com